We need to move beyond just banning these glasses - all smart glasses of all kinds - to breaking up these companies. Undo the acquisitions of Insta and Whatsapp - I don't care that will be expensive, thats a shareholders problem.
> As he films them from multiple angles, the predominantly English-speaking employees ask the presenter questions such as, "What are you doing?" and "Are you filming me right now?"
Meta employees themselves couldn't tell if he was recording!
This is the non-confrontational way to say, "I know you are recording". It allows a quick "Oh, sorry" if the person is willing to turn it off when confronted, without escalating to an actual confrontation.
> Designed for users who value discretion, this accessory covers the video recording LED and optionally blocks the front-facing camera — perfect for content creators, streamers, or anyone in sensitive environments.
There is two parts, one to block the LED, and an option to al part to block the camera.
You have to hold up a cell phone to film people with it. It's a very obvious action. Definitely not intentional in the design but it's an accidental feature.
I agree we should do something in this instance, but with the speed of which things are changing? Eventually, this tech is going to be undetectable.
"Oh no that's sci-fi and decades away", I really don't think so. I think neuralink, and competitors too, will next move on to reading the visual cortex. They already have plans to push data to the visual cortex, to enable the blind to "see", reading in healthy people seems quite doable.
I expect something like this to happen before 2030.
Regardless, I agree for now? Yes. But the future? I don't see it as blockable forever.
There are two ways we decide how severe the punishment for broken laws is. One is to enable just punishment. The other is deterrent. This may fall into "deterrent is the bigger part of the sentence", where people posting private information receive years in jail as a result.
There is a little bit of a conversation about this here:
I think it won't be long before it's the posting of non-consensual imagery that is so criminal, that few will do so. For years in Quebec, sharing of images captured in public isn't really legit. You control "images of yourself", regardless of where they are taken, public places or not:
> "Oh no that's sci-fi and decades away", I really don't think so. I think neuralink, and competitors too, will next move on to reading the visual cortex. They already have plans to push data to the visual cortex, to enable the blind to "see", reading in healthy people seems quite doable.
> I expect something like this to happen before 2030.
I think 2030 is too early for that, medical tech is slower than most people expect. What may happen by then is (more) retinal implants connected to external cameras, as the early tests of that kind of thing are now well into the past and early models were actually authorised: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argus_retinal_prosthesis
The non-medical surveillance risk is higher. The smallest camera (as of 6 years ago) was already small enough to be easily missed amongst makeup sparkles if you were so inclined: https://originalpricing.com/ov6948-medical-camera-sensor/
Low resolution? Sure. Expensive, too. But I can easily see this being embedded in someone's nail lacquer, or eyelashes.
There have been hidden cameras of various kinds for a lot longer than that, hidden in buttons etc.
Between this and how easy it is to use AI to fake a picture of anyone you choose, anywhere you choose, doing anything you choose… I have absolutely no idea what will happen to consensus reality and shared social norms next year, let alone by 2030.
Yes, the reality issue is big. This may be in fact the only thing which saves 'big' news. And it may be what kills all forms of social media posting.
Some yahoo you don't know, posting a video of <thing happening> is useless without some degree of trust. So whether an established celeb on Youtube or actual media outlets, centralized reporting is going to become more of a thing.
When I was a kid, pre-internet, pre-camera, 'rumours' could be devastating, and were often wildly made up. Yet there was always this category of people who simple could not get through their head, that simply because someone hears something, it isn't therefore true.
This category of people still exists. And I think they'll be most hit by this.
> Regardless, I agree for now? Yes. But the future? I don't see it as blockable forever.
It's increasingly necessary not to allow guests to bring their devices into your house or establishment. Somebody should go into business doing courtesy phones, where you can switch your sim/esim at the door to a dumbphone owned by the business.
When it comes to smart glasses, if they're prescription you had better have spares or you're going to be blind.
Canada's censorship solutions are no solution; you can't stop people from doing things by cracking down on civil liberties, people will just ignore you and do it anyway. Then you're stuck chasing anonymity, now your entire society is totalitarian and everything is rooted. In order to fight the totalitarian surveillance and tracking instituted because you wouldn't tell some pervert to take his robot glasses off, the electorate makes MechaHitler your PM, and it's now in control of your surveillance system.
It would be very funny if Skynet took over because people elected it, like Hitler did.
It's not censorship to be in control of your own likeness. And having laws which are easy to call upon is part of justice being served. In the Quebec example, someone posting something about you is as easy as 'take that down' then 'police are called if you disobey the court', which is really how courts have always worked everywhere around the world.
The US has a crazier takedown regime, letting companies do this. At least in Canada it goes through a court, it's about your personal likeness, and you can contest it.
I don't like it but it's totally normal, especially for youth, to have their cell phones out in locker rooms. Targeting only glasses with this concern is largely out of touch with current behavior.
That isn't normal and it's actively enforced against in gyms and pools where I live.
Glasses are passively recording. Recording with a phone is active (for the most part). You need to take it out and point it at what you are recording...
Every gym I've been to is full of people with phones out in the locker room, from cheap chain gyms to the nicer athletic club I currently go to. My experience is much closer to GP.
> Glasses are passively recording
All the smart glasses I know of have a light on when recording. My phone does not and can be much more discreet (subject to the fact that everyone has a phone out already).
I agree that if a location is actively banning phone use patrons should absolutely also be asked to take off smart glasses.
Not to minimize Meta's push for these things, but there have been devices that do this for quite a while now. You can get tiny cameras hidden in pens, watches, glasses, and all sorts of other items.
It's just that in the past, these were sold by janky companies selling them as spy/hidden cameras, not massive multinational data brokers like Meta.
I would be surprised if those don't already exist, I hear stories in the news all the time about small hidden cameras places they shouldn't be. For a private space like the locker room I'm not sure what option there is besides laws making that illegal (I assume/hope that already is?). Someone dedicated already can get a much more discreet camera.
For public spaces, at least where I am, there really isn't a legal expectation of privacy. I couldn't tell if someone was watching YouTube or filming me with their phone and I probably don't have any recourse anyway.
My children's school have an interesting way of dealing with the ever growing list of devices they need a policy for. They borrowed the police term "data carrying devices" and wrote a policy based on that. When Metas glasses started to be come a problem no policy change was needed for the school, they were automatically covered.
That's probably the best solution, deal with the functionality, not the device type.
Is the issue with person A videoing person B that
a) B doesn't know they're being filmed
b) B knows it and doesn't like it
c) something else.
I think likely b) so now we get to is whether A's conduct legal.
If A is located in a public place, e.g., a public sidewalk, they can legally film whatever they can see.
They can do this using a phone, Meta glasses, a camera on a tripod, etc.
For example, A could stand on the sidewalk in front of your your house and legally film you through an open window.
Kinda creepy but not illegal.
Also as much as you might like to punish investors (most of whom just have it in their 401k) because you don't like people with money, there are legal protections and the government can't just do something like that without an actual reason.
WhatsApp is definitely part of Meta's distribution and reach strategy. So it's very relevant.
I don't think OP is trying to punish investors. I think they are saying the overall damage of letting these companies continue the current trend will be worse than the cost of unwinding it now.
I'm an advocate of reformed legislation to enable this.
Why shouldn't we punish investors? This is the risk when you invest in these types of companies where regulation is nonexistent. It's not the job of the government to make sure rich shareholders stay green.
It’s absolutely insane to me how intro economics classes spout that capital takes on risks to implement new ideas while completely glossing over the political process of ensuring profit floors and guarantees under the “rent seeking” definition. Like, rent seeking seems to be the only goal of capital now.
Public prisons have all of the same incentives to reduce costs and anything you should do to ensure public prisons are following minimum standards (regular inspections and regulations) can just as easily be applied to private prisons.
The problem isn't the profit. The problem is the lack of accountability.
Politicians don't care about that either. They care about trying to balance the budget by cutting money from the places that people care about the least.
What a great way to flip a discussion on privacy. I'm so happy for your investments. I have investments, too. That didn't stop me from telling our financial advisor that I didn't want shares in specific evil companies, regardless of their profitability. Maybe that's because I have enough money to be selective about it, which apparently will earn your respect.
I know that shareholders just want monopolies and free money and don't want to compete for it, but we should make them. Like we did before Ronald Reagan and Robert Bork shot the kneecaps out of our antitrust law. It's not about punishing shareholders, it's about making them earn their keep. It's just good business.
Also as much as you might like to punish investors (most of whom just have it in their 401k) because you don't like people with money, there are legal protections and the government can't just do something like that without an actual reason.
As much as you might like to defend the wealthy because the only thing you care about is money, regardless of the human cost, doesn't mean that we can't use the law and the government to limit the harm being done to humans.
I know what you are going to say. "Fuck people! I only worship money!" but I think you need to look beyond just the financial aspects of this situation.
The government can do whatever it wants. Laws are written by the government. We have a democracy. If enough votes exist to, say, pass a law banning drug dealing (like meta does), then the company will die.
I think the point is, it's been a good system, but it's out of control. It's not that people don't like people having money, it's people don't like the status quo of watching society and the world be destroyed by generating share holder value alone. We need a better system. Not saying that is communism or whatever, but the monopolies and corruption are off the charts.
Flat out banning a category of product because it is possible to use it for bad things is stupid. Thousands of people are killed by cars every year - should we ban them? (Being killed is far worse than being recorded naked in a locker room. Not saying the latter is great, but it's better than being dead)
There are also potential good uses for this tech. As someone who can't remember anyone's name worth crap, I can't wait for smart glasses with facial recognition and a name tag that hovers over everyone. I'm sure there will be great benefit in industry, giving workers heads up displays of all manner of important information.
Just like any new technology, there is equal potential for good and bad.
People don't generally tolerate me sticking a nametag on them... And they certainly don't tend to wear it for future events where we are both present.
A local only face recognizer with consent of the face owners would be pretty useful for me. Although it would require a lot of 'hey, I'm bad at faces and names, do you mind if I take a picture so baby skynet can help me out?'
How inauthentic. If you don't remember someone's name, just say so. Ask them again and try harder next time. If I see you with glasses on, and your eyeballs looking above my head I'm going to walk away from you.
Practical advice from a non-social person that forgets names - make notes, even 15 seconds after you meet the person if possible. The name, along with a quick note about where you met them, a feature that stuck out about them, a conversation you had with them, etc. Another thing that helps if you are not great at socializing on the fly (like me), is having pre-planned conversation pieces for people you might meet at a venue, or on the elevator at work. This will help add to the notes. Dittys sometimes work - like if the person's name is Brian and they have long hair - "Long haired Brian". Sounds goofy, but it really does work. Then every time you see that person, you call them by their name to help make it stick.
And if all fails, a "What up DUDE!" always works well too.
Now if you have a brain issue or something, I understand. But as a normal, healthy person, if we aren't making even the smallest effort to remember names, even the non-important ones, then we are more than likely the problem hah!
> Civilians can’t operate jet engines with a variable nozzle size.
I cannot find any support for that. Variable nozzles are fairly rare (but not non-existent) on non-afterburning engines, and afterburning engines are fairly rare themselves (and sometimes restricted as part of demilitarization of a former military airframe), but both variable nozzles and afterburners are entirely legal for a civilian to own and operate.
> You can’t buy a gun without some kind of check
That comes with a caveat -- this only applies to retail sales. Over half of States do allow private purchases with no background check.
I never once said that there can't or shouldn't be any restrictions in place. By all means, put laws in place where recording video in a locker room is a felony, for example. I'm just saying that a blanket ban because it could be bad is extremely short-sighted.
(Networked) surveillance cameras are just as problematic, but people don't notice them. Any ban should affect them too. I don't want to build a world where corporations and governments film and surveil us in public (or privately-owned public spaces, like malls, parking lots, etc.), but we're forbidden from doing the same.
You just unknowingly pointed out the real problem - the system is setup so that we think we are in on it, but as a wise man said "It's a big club and you ain't in it".
Also "lose their personal savings" is a hyperbolic bad faith argument. If anyone's entire net worth is put into Meta stock, they get whats coming. Second, 93% of the stock market is owned by 10% of the population. The average American has more to gain from holding companies accountable than letting them rape and pillage our society so the richest people can have even more money.
93% of equities are held by the top 10% of households. Most middle class wealth in the US is primary residence real estate. The stock market isn’t the economy. No one is entitled to wealth, nor it maintaining it's value.
> As of 2022, about half of households with a worker age 55 and older had no retirement savings, and 32% had no retirement savings or a defined benefit plan.
The scaremongering about equity values and your average person’s holdings and exposure is not grounded in facts and reality. It’s simply scaremongering.
This line of argument ("think of the retirees!!!") could be used in many cases, however when is it acceptable to break companies for the greater (non-financial) good?
On a parallel, can't we criticize any decision reducing the market cap of companies as an attack on the retirement portfolios? Say, if we required connected glasses to display a red light of more than x lumens when recording, would that be ok, even if it decreased Meta's market cap?
> decision reducing the market cap of companies as an attack on the retirement portfolios
Any decision that results in a long term net loss across the entire public economy? Yes.
That's something that hurts a lot of people and that hurt should be carefully weighed against whatever the assumed benefit is. Sometimes that's worth it, sometimes it's not
But it's never OK to just hand wave with "well I don't care about that class of people so screw them"
And let's not move the goalposts. OPs proposal was a corporate breakup of massive scale, not a minimum lumens requirement.
I'm not saying that we should or shouldn't, I would like to know the line of demarcation. Splitting Meta would have a very low effect on the economy as the services are individually profitable and would continue to be operated, without the all-knowing centralized database/24h Telescreen.
At some point, similar to the camera/face recognition debate, it's about a choice of society that we want to live in. I think that's an interesting debate.
> Splitting Meta would have a very low effect on the economy
That's...I'm not even sure how to respond to that. It would have a large direct and MASSIVE indirect chilling effect. The scale would be historic.
> it's about a choice of society that we want to live in. I think that's an interesting debate.
I fully agree with you! OP apparently doesn't, as he stated he does not care about half of the voices in that debate. That's what I'm taking issue with, not the proposal to break up Meta, which is, as you said, worth a debate!
> It would have a large direct and MASSIVE indirect chilling effect.
Like it did with Ma Bell (the effective telephone monopoly)? No. I'm pretty sure it would have the direct opposite (open frontier) effect. The direct steps to break up a company are well telegraphed to the market.
Meta has at the moment also a massive direct effect as it is a monopoly on its advertising segment.
The effect on economy I'm talking about is a functional one, ads and slop will continue to be served on your social network of choice. Second order like "bad vibes" will be forgotten in a month, a quarter at max and then hedge fund managers will move to something else.
> I'm looking forward to Meta taking down all videos where someone is a bit harassed. Internet will be a much nicer place!
Well, I’m looking forward of Meta going down. Now that would benefit the Internet.
After that, I think the fact that these glasses are allowed in the first place creates a problem that Meta as a platform cannot fix, because Meta is just one of the many many places where videos can be posted.
The argumentative method of rather than saying and doing what you believe and instead doing and saying what you are opposed to, is always weak and usually a great way to shoot yourself in the foot.
That being said. I agree 100% with making Meta Employees feel uncomfortable with their own products.
Asking someone to turn around isn't making them turn around. And he asked multiple men and just one woman in the video. In any case - among real life Meta glasses users, who do you think is going to be perved on more - men, or women?
If you judge this video without any kind of context, then yes he is a weirdo harassing strangers who are just trying to go about their day. The point is that these glasses enable this weird behavior, and the people he's filming are (ostensibly) part of that system.
That was totally unacceptable behavior. I support the choice to take down a video depicting blatant sexual harassment of its employees. I also support launching meta into the sun.
Maybe I'm too European to understand, where exactly is harassment occurring? He's asking Meta employees questions, doesn't seem to follow them around, and when they walk away or say no, he doesn't exactly force them to stay or anything? Doesn't there have to be some intimidation or humiliation or similar for it to be harassment? Or asking employees what they think of the products they develop and support is the harassment part?
Arguing about whether to call this kind of behavior a harassment or "a bit" of a harassment is in my opinion all besides the point.
This video mainly shows a person approaching other people in public and recording them with these glasses. Which is one of the typical scenarios in which such a glasses are probably going to be used. And that video shows that even the Meta employees themselves generally do not seem to like it very much.
We already have thousands of videos made by way more hostile people, who test the patience of people in public and even get themselves occasionally arrested, and they're very obviously holding cameras and shoving those cameras in people's faces.
I'm not sure how it follows that glasses will encourage more of that behavior.
I don't know if I agree that man-on-the-street pseudo journalistic stuff is one of the "typical scenarios." Any time I see a product like this I think:
1) Can I use it to watch a more immersive movie without bothering people who may be in the next week?
2) Can I use it to make my games more enjoyable, either console or PC?
3) Can I use it to record IPSC/USPSA matches?
4) Can I use it for work?
I don't think these will make more people bother strangers on the street, it's just another way the same people can do that.
That's fine for you, but why on earth do you think every other person out there will only use these for innocuous nerdy reasons? Ask any adult woman you know and there's a good chance she will have at least one story of being stalked or getting really creeped out by someone. Consumer tech that enables creepy behavior will be used in that way by too many people.
I felt a bit uneasy when the employees indicate they're uncomfortable with the filming and he asks them why, while continuing to film. Given how they're blurred out and that their discomfort is kind-of the point w.r.t. the issue he's trying to raise, I don't think this meets the bar that Meta usually adheres to when it comes to taking down videos, but describing it as "a bit" of harassment doesn't sound too wrong to me.
Others are making it wrong doesn't justify another wrong.
In any case: they are different because they are in the face all day long, they are not a device some needs to start using to record;
they are not operated by the user, in the sense that the user does not show any active indication of recording (e.g. they are not holding the camera);
they are similar to regular glasses, making it hard to distinguish;
and they do not clear indicate if they are recording (and don't tell me that the LED is enough)
It's intentionally a camera that doesn't need to be held and it matches the the POV of the wearer. Where has Meta said it's intentionally designed to be hidden?
People who don't know these "Meta glasses" exist (and they shouldn't need to), would have no idea that the thing is even capable of recording.
It's subterfuge and while you could argue that this subterfuge was "unintentional", but imho that's mincing words, and also given that it's Meta, not entirely in good faith.
Can I assume that you have good enough eye sight that you don't need to wear glasses if you choose to? Because as somebody who is absolutely dependent on glasses as a serious aid, it leaves a very bad taste they are literally hiding the recording device in a disability aid.
Does Meta have a reputation about being honest about what it's doing? This is the company that just lost a $17 billion lawsuit for endangering children.
Behavior like this will one day causing "no glasses beyond this point" rule, which will also hurts people that really need to use glasses.
All things you mentioned can be easily prohibited on photo-sensitive area. Perhaps phone is harder, but it's still easily get prohibited without hurting anything. Glasses so far is a requirement, not that easy to prohibit in an area.
The comment to which you're responding didn't claim the glasses enabled it more than some other device does. And these employees don't work for the companies that make those devices. You can see how your question is irrelevant whataboutism right?
Most people would recognize a gopro, or a security camera, or a phone held in a certain way as something that is recording or likely to be recording.
I don't think most people would recognize the meta glasses as something that could be recording. Especially if you cover or disable the recording LED light that is supposed to come on.
I am just an American, but I live in Portugal and it is legally not allowed to film people in public without their consent (you also can't have a street facing surveillance camera like in the US). Moreover, people take this rule very seriously. If it appears that you are doing so, they will be visibly bothered (I know some kids who have had uncomfortable interactions because they weren't aware).
I don't think blurring faces fully addresses that (though I'm not commenting on legality in Amsterdam).
I can see the argument that this video is in the public interest (hey, I'm Americanese), but it does seem plausible some people would find it a violation of a norm.
I realize the idea that rules exist even if you dislike the people they (momentarily) protect, even if those people have violated them, is a tough pill to swallow.
Right but the debate here is about “my gun is good and your gun is bad” rather than the right of anybody to have gun.
Cameras exist. This is a camera. All cameras have the same problems this one. So why are we debating about this camera vs that camera rather than whether cameras should be allowed.
My perfectly normal camera does not stream shit to Meta servers or any other cloud. It's in fact fully offline. So, no.
Recording is one thing and sharing the same recording with a hostile foreign entity another.
Legally, many places have strict ban on publishing photos/recordings without consent, while photographing itself is generally allowed in public spaces.
This is before even getting into with issues of recordes
d material being used as training material etc, which adds additional ethical and legal issues.
Across most of the world it's pretty difficult to walk around a high traffic area without coming across someone using a smartphone to record their surroundings for FB Live or Instagram, and it's been that way since long before anyone had Meta glasses.
When you hold up a camera to record me, I can clearly tell that you are recording me.
It is socially and in many cases legally forbidden to use cameras in many spaces.
The fact that the use of a camera is obvious is what makes it possible to sanction their inappropriate uses. With this piece of shit, it's not possible to tell at a glance that it is not being used, so we have to always assume that it's recording feature is being used.
The default usecase for it is socially and legally transgressive. That's what makes someone with a smartphone a normal person, while someone with these glasses an asshole.
---
If I'm in a store or a coffee shop, and there's someone wearing these glasses in it, I'll do the exact same thing as I would to someone conspicuously filming me with a camera - I'll ask staff to make that person put them away, or throw them out. For the same reason, anyone with them is not welcome in my home, nor any other space I have control over, and any establishment that welcomes people wearing them will not get any business from me.
The premise here is that if someone wants to secretly record you, that it’s not possible or easy with a smartphone or some other kind of easily acquired camera. This unfortunately is completely wrong.
If someone is motivated to secretly or inappropriately film, they will do so with whatever device they have. Having these glasses doesn’t tell you anything more about whether they’re that kind of person than the colour of their shirt.
Whether you will notice is entirely context and situation dependent. In some cases the glasses would be hard to notice, in others the use of a phone would be hard to notice.
So while your perspective that people who want to secretly film stuff should be unwelcome is quite reasonable, the test you apply to detect it is misdirected.
> I am just an American, but I live in Portugal and it is legally not allowed to film people in public without their consent
If that's actual law that's a bit surprising. In many EU countries there are journalistic exceptions (which may or may not apply in this specific case depending on local law)
> (you also can't have a street facing surveillance camera like in the US)
And same here. Usually the limit is that if you do it within GDPR household exemption then you cannot have it facing street, but if you do it on GDPR scope then you need to fulfill the GDPR requirements (e.g. posting notice, be ready to answer GDPR requests, perform balancing tests for recording etc.).
This is true de jure but not de facto and if anyone wants proof just go look up the number of Teslas in portuguese streets and the zero convictions over continuous recording of the public.
It's kind of an interesting catch-22 if that's the right idiom. Places with these laws do generally have a higher rate of property crime when comparing like to like, e.g. urban areas of similar size, to those without it. However that higher crime rate often leads to installation of security cameras covering more private areas.
The original comment doesn't tell the whole story. Street facing surveillance cameras are allowed if they are strictly covering the entrances to the building.
Bending down to stare at a female employee's ass at waist level after he asked her to turn around isn't harassment[1]? Like, up until that point it was almost ribbing but that was quite the turn given it'd be the same issue whether he was wearing smart glasses or not.
Not to mention the sarcastic, insincere tone he adopts after being asked what he's doing, claiming he's "such a huge fan" of the Meta glasses. There is a way to draw attention to privacy and this is a poor way to go about it.
[1] Cambridge Dictionary: 'behavior that annoys or upsets someone'
If what someone has done makes me critique them rather than fully side with them then the goal of what they've produced has already failed. This is not a video I can share with anyone I know and expect their takeaway to be 'fuck Meta'.
People also use smartphones to take upskirt photos without any shutter sound (arguably much easier than this guy physically bending over) but if someone was protesting phone cameras then doing that to people in public for some video wouldn't be some gotcha 'dunk'. At best it'd merely be controversial.
For a high effort pushback of Meta Glasses see the lenticular They Live vandalism of Meta's bus stop ad[1]. It hits the same goal this video author was trying to make, is actually clever and doesn't leave itself open to critique. Didn't require video removal on platforms to get the attention of articles either.
To me he crossed a line by asking the woman to turn around and then crouching down to film her butt. That is a really creepy thing to do and a lot of women would find that threatening. Ask a female friend how they would feel if you find that surprising.
I mean, you are being filmed everywhere you go anyway by flock cameras, police/government cctv, even cctv on business and peoples house/ring doorbells etc. Concent to being filmed in a public place is not really asked anywhere, so I dont see it as a big difference personally.
Try to have the 24/7 cameras at chest level or lower, you'll find people starting to get uncomfortable. You can easily reach those angle with the glasses, and different with smartphone which also can, the glasses can be hard to distinguish.
Ring doorbell cameras are chest high and millions of homes have them. I would bet every time you walk down the street you are captured by loads of them, but because you dont know you dont care.
I've said this out loud several times while reading the comments defending Meta under this post.
It's so interesting to see so many weak or misdirecting justifications. It's almost as if people are here to attempt to control the narrative for financial reasons.
I think the ironic thing in the video, is the employees of the company making the product, abject to the use of the product when it is directed towards them. So why should everyone else be comfortable with it.
But meta employs many thousands of people. Is it fair to say they all work on the meta glasses and/or all think they are a good idea? Just because you work for a company doesnt mean you share its morals.
Poor Tracy in accounts probably doesnt give 2 hoots about meta glasses, shes just an accountant and maybe she doesnt even know they exist. But now shes getting harassed by idiots with cameras as she goes into the office because of something another department on the other side of the country did.
If you were doing it to Zuck himself or following round the head of the smart glasses department then it might be different, but harassing general employees of meta is no better than any other company. These are normal people no matter where they work.
I mean to be honest, fuck them all. The whole affair is fruit of the poisoned tree (Zuck). Just because people are making bank working there doesn’t absolve them of responsibility for their choices. Each and every employee made that conscious choice to be a part of it all
You don’t understand the difference between recording things in good faith vs recording things because you want a reaction you can exploit for personal gains.
Hahahaha, "recording things in good faith." What an insane statement to make to paint this guy in a bad light. Should people also be concerned about walking in good faith, or eating their lunch in good faith? Meta created these creep glasses so people could do exactly what this guy is doing: film people in public (without them knowing). There is no "bad faith" when you're just literally doing what the product is for.
1. You’ve inferred that the reason the glasses exist is to enable people to harass other people. That’s a very odd conclusion.
2. Where’s the without them knowing? Meta literally designed the hardware so that you do know that you’re being filmed, unlike almost every other camera on the market.
3. You haven’t managed to separate the decisions and accountability of an individual from the tool that they use to execute those decisions. This is a strange way to look at the world. It places inherent moral values into inanimate objects.
1. Whether what he did is considered "harassment" is debatable.
2. Because it looks like an everyday object and not a camera? If you design a necklace or hat that films people but displays a small light (which can easily be covered up), the vast majority of people will not know they are being filmed.
3. He went up to people in public and asked them questions. Filming their bodies and asking them to turn around was weird and inappropriate but demonstrates the point he is trying to make, which is that this is inherently a bad product that films people with a camera but it doesn't look like a camera, which people naturally find deceptive and creepy, and they don't want to be around it.
Right but if they stand near you and film you with a phone without directly interacting with you, it’s extremely difficult to notice that you’re being filmed.
If someone stands in front of you and interacts with you, firstly the camera in these glasses is not hidden and the glasses themselves are quite distinctive, and secondly, a light comes on exactly where you would be looking as you interact - next to their eyes.
On those two points, I’d argue that they’re exactly the same as phones or other cameras when it comes to being able to secretly record.
They’re nothing like glasses from spy novels, they’re extremely noticeable.
I would not call that "extremely noticeable". Perhaps it is extremely noticeable if you are familiar that a company makes normal looking glasses with cameras built in. But if you aren't, you might just assume that is some stylistic part of the glasses and not a tiny lens.
They have been around for a while. At some point it just became trendy to hate on them, but people are completely oblivious to the fact that you are more easily recorded secretly with smartphones. In fact, most viral content you see where someone is being recorded without their consent is from a smartphone, I have yet to see any such content filmed with actual smart glasses.
The camera is useful for many things besides recording video, but now we can’t have nice things because people think everyone with glasses is trying to creep on them.
Meta is butt raping our privacy 24/7 but god forbid some dude ask 3 questions to its employees, I'll never understand people bootlicking megacorps like these.
Fuck meta and fuck every single of their employee, you can't keep building hell and complain when people hit back
I've heard of journalism before, yes. So? Since when is this harassment?
Can't believe we have corporate bootlickers on HN of all places, I thought we still cared a tiny sliver about privacy? It all went away when we all gave away our private data to the AI companies, or what's the deal?
> Can't believe we have corporate bootlickers on HN of all places,
There are a very large contingent on HN who are against restrictions on corporate activities because they envision themselves as potential beneficiaries of a low regulation environment. Many of them also apparently view criticism itself as a restriction.
> let's not pretend this is not all also possible with other devices
Let's not pretend being able to beat someone with a rock and shoot them with a M61 Vulcan at 6k rounds per minute are the same thing just because they involve projectiles.
This kind of hyperbole is nonsense. It’s a camera, being compared to other cameras. If your point doesn’t stand without dubious analogy then it’s not a very good point.
The fact is that if you stood outside any company office, with a highly visible camera crew, and then asked people who were passing by whether they worked at that company, most of them would probably feel quite apprehensive.
They would also be apprehensive if there was no camera at all.
So what exactly is the point that is being made in this video? People are apprehensive when put into situations with other people where their intentions are not clear and there are signs that the intentions might be malicious. Very informative…
It's harassment when you're doing something slightly inconvenient in a way which doesn't benefit big business or the super rich.
It's fine if you're doing it to benefit them, then you can go much further, you can kill small children with your tractors (as is attempted in The Netherlands) or to murder coast guards or migrant (via drowning or fire) as happens in the UK.
Everyone keeps saying he is dutch but he was speaking a different language in the video thanks to automatic youtube dubbing. I was quite confused because not everything was even dubbed correctly. Also its an auto dubbing through AI. Didn't realize it got automatically selected. So annoying.
Realized too late into the video that I had to switch to original track
He's speaking Dutch and speaking English with a very very heavy west-Netherlands accent. Quite a lot of the Meta employees there can't speak Dutch which is why he switches to English.
I think I should have worded my comment differently. I did not mean the guy does not speak dutch, the video was not playing in dutch because of that shitty auto dubbing of youtube.
Yes exactly. But YouTube selected some AI translation voice over which I did not realize first. So I was quite confused. Once I selected the original audio it was obvious that he is dutch.
I absolutely hate that YouTube is doing that; I'm Dutch/English so obviously fluent in both languages yet YouTube randomly decides to give me this horrific AI dub for some Dutch videos.
They've broken Android too, you can't even set it up with multiple languages. I use three daily - Dutch / English / American - and also a bit of German / French / Spanish / Italian here and there. Plus of course Latin because on my English side I'm a pretentious prick :-)
It is hypocrisy because Meta are knowingly creating a product that is perfectly suited for filming or photographing people without their knowledge. I find that it speaks ill of someone's character to pretend otherwise. And then they react badly when the very thing that these products enable happens to them. Demonstrating how this is a problem. They try to pretend it isn't a problem and then their actions demonstrate that it IS a problem.
It isn't because we do have laws that actually cover these things already. Of course, they're not the same across the world, law enforcement are not always aware of what the laws are, and this causes confrontations and sometimes overreach. There are also different legal systems that interpret laws differently. For instance in some legal systems the letter of the law carries more weight. In other legal systems the intent of the law is what matters.
There are two great risks here:
1) we pretend we can get by with existing laws. That the existing laws had enough foresight to meaningfully fulfil what the laws were intended to accomplish.
2) we can overreact and damage legitimate freedoms in our eagerness to solve an immediate problem.
For instance, where I live there is a law on the books that prohibits photographing someone being arrested. The law was well-meaning. It was there to protect people from being plastered all over the media until guilt has been determined in a court of law. But it would also prohibit someone from documenting police brutality during an arrest. So the law was never enacted because it failed to balance interests properly.
Right now, where I live, there is a real risk that rules about photography may become overly strict because politicians feel they have to demonstrate an ability to act. So they may end up passing laws that have unforeseen consequences while probably failing to make much of a difference anyway.
We know why these cameras pose a problem. Let's not insult each other's intelligence by pretending they are exactly like poking a traditional camera in someone's face. They're not and we should be able to agree on simple facts. But we also know that we need to have a public discussion about what we're going to do about this so we don't end up introducing draconian laws that take away freedoms we should have. For instance the freedom to document abuses of power, criminal activity, artistic expression etc.
It's not "perfectly suited", it's EXPLICITLY DESIGNED TO do that. And it's very well designed and very effective.
But hey it's OK because Meta only want to record everything to train their AI, who cares if some of their friends use it to create CSAM material, their third-world country workers upload it to PornHub and the NSA secretly pipe all of that through their servers (or servers managed by MI5 in the case of Americans).
They added a recording light and made covering it stop recording or photography. They went through extra effort to at least try and provide a public signal someone is recording.
Depending on your environment (outdoors/bright sunlight and angle to the wearer) it can be pretty difficult to notice the light. And not everyone knows what the light is if they even notice it.
That functionality that is supposed to stop the recording if the light is covered is not perfect. You can find lots of "hacks" being offered online and apparently some of them work.
It's pretty obvious Meta did the bare minimum here. It could have made these much more conspicuous or decided, wisely, not to unleash this crap on society given the privacy and abuse concerns that clearly outweigh the benefits.
This is their theory of power, that the selected few get access to a state of exception (but you can lose it at any time, so don't slip up).
Trump and oligarchs broadly have offered this franchise to their most loyal.
But! I'd argue it is not precisely hypocrisy, because they never believed in a rules-based order in the first place. They just see a system they can exploit.
break things has always been right there in black and white.
Feel free to point out the hypochrisy. I'll remind you that sharing a video you took of someone without their consent is not the same as recording them and keeping the video strictly for yourself
This person was not trespassing on Meta property and nothing indicates that he was harassing employees who refused to be interviewed. It is perfectly legal in the Netherlands to record people in public places.
You don't need someone's consent to record in public, and if any of the employees objected to the publication of the recording, they could consult with an attorney about a portrait rights claim. Such a claim should be adjudicated by a court, not Facebook.
And let's be clear about the context here: these types of glasses are used by "content creators" to do street interviews that are published online, and they're also used to record all sorts of junk/nonsense ("pranks", pickup artist BS, etc.).
Meta doesn't seem to have a problem with content recorded with these glasses being posted on its platforms, even when it's objectionable, because it's literally everywhere. The only problem here, obviously, was that he was recording Meta employees.
"these types of glasses are used by "content creators" to do street interviews that are published online"
This to me is wild. I use the glasses to film my kids and share it on private hard-drives with grandparents, that's it. It's wild to me that I can surreptitiously film someone on the street and publish it online for views, and the only recourse the person has, is to go to court? Seems insane.
Why does Hollywood require a release but Youtube does not?
EDIT: People are getting hung-up on my use case. But that's not the question posed here.
You might want to think twice about this. The videos from those glasses are uploaded and used for AI training, for which they are also reviewed by humans in Kenya, according to the explainer from Bits Of Freedom (with English subs, here: https://www.bitsoffreedom.nl/campagnes/gluurbril/)
Posted article has nothing on my data ending up in Kenya. If you mean it'll be used by Meta Analytics, that's an opt-in feature (easy Fines in California if they violate this)
I agree posting videos of people without their consent should be illegal, and I thought it was? Why does Hollywood require a release form but YouTube does not?
But that's regardless of whether it was filmed on Meta Glasses or a pocket camera.
Bit of a Gish galloping happening here. None of the content/video mentioned in these articles are shown to be non-consensually shared (which is the wink wink suggestion here). I have no doubt Meta has contractors world wide
Meta's pretty explicit about asking for opt-in and laying out exactly how your videos are used as part of onboarding.
I think it's a matter of trust. How many times has Meta proven untrustworthy over the years? Do we have reason other than their pinky-promise -- backed by the potential for nuisance fines and lawsuits -- to assume they should get it now?
It is bizarre to me that you think Meta will be a good steward of your data, regardless of what they've told you or what the law says they can and can't do.
This would be an added fine, because its not just "oopsie I used your data for analytics when you didn't opt-in", it'll be "actually I went ahead and used it for other purposes too".
As someone who trains AI for a living, the resultant fines are definitely not worth my data.
You keep referring repeatedly to fines and how easy they are to collect in California, but a quick search indicates that, to date, Facebook has paid $0 in fines to California for CCPA violations.
The biggest fine ever recorded for CCPA violations was against Disney, and it was for a paltry $2.75 million. Disney pulls in $2.75 million in revenue every ~10 mintues.
The potential fines for these types of laws are basically considered a cost of doing business if they ever need to be paid, and pale in comparison to the revenue earned by monetizing user data.
Meta pulls >100B USD in profits, an added fine of even a few hundreds millions USD could be worth it depending on cost-benefit.
I asked what other enforcement mechanisms there could be since an added fine isn't really teeth-y enough unless it follows the EU model for privacy violations: initial fine and a requirement to change behaviour, no change in behaviour increases the fine up to 6% global revenue, and the fines will keep coming until the behaviour is changed.
Perhaps for the company you work at it might not be worth it but we are talking about one of the most profitable companies in the history of mankind.
Profitable companies still need to justify unit economics. And I know it's not believable in this particular forum but Meta doesn't operate on the "let's optimize pricing on breaking laws" principle.
Given the marginal value of my data to training anything (near zero), the lawsuit costs (even if I personally don't see any of the money) is far too large. I am not saying they definitely won't do it, they've bumbled into worse situations before but this feels like an obvious own goal if they try.
> If you mean it'll be used by Meta Analytics, that's an opt-in feature (easy Fines in California if they violate this)
And, as we all know, tech companies and especially Meta never ever lie or trick you. They were never caught red handed sharing your information and violating your privacy despite claiming the opposite. They also are never fined because they are so careful, and the fines and consequences are always big enough to make them clean up their act.
Oh, wait, for a moment I forgot about the past two decades.
Some auditors in the USA did that already. I was surprised to see that, since here in Europe, people have a much more negative view of Facebook's spyglasses. I think it is similar to getting money from Facebook directly, just as other "sports" people do product placement, such as for Red Bull (Dom Tomato; and many in the bboying scene). I find this annoying to no ends, but money convinces people. My problem is that I am not interested in ads and no "argument" can convince me otherwise. Since I am not interested in ads, I don't watch it and I don't buy from such companies. It places some restrictions onto me, since many companies advertise, in particular the big ones, but it also means I get to know smaller companies better. (Sometimes there is a de-facto monopoly, so I can not always avoid all companies and their ads; in particular for things you really need, such as food and so forth.)
> the only recourse the person has, is to go to court
Well, typically, if you are in public, you can do just about anything with regards to recording. In private the laws are a bit different. Either way it is a barrier.
FALSE! It's legal to record in public spaces and share it if you are not targeting any individual in particular. What the author did was instead purpusefully focus on those particular employees.
Author made the people he was recording unrecognizable. So even though he focused on specific employees he didn't violate their right to privacy which means it isn't illegal.
Supposing the video has not been edited further, since the original was taken down, their voices were not censored and there are people in the video who were not in the background and who clearly didn't want to be filmed. I agree that the law has many intricacies, but here I think it's much more the case of their privacy being broken and their consent being ignored
Yes, you're claiming that it's illegal to record people in public in the Netherlands. This is incorrect.
Under Article 139a of the Dutch Criminal Code, you are legally allowed to record any conversation in which you are a participant. You don't need to inform or obtain permission from another party.
There's no law that forbids recording people in public spaces. GDPR and portrait rights claims may be implicated, but if Facebook wants to take the position that it removed this man's videos as an adjudication of claims those recorded never brought themselves, it begs the question: why is it selling its glasses and allowing them to record in the Netherlands in the first place?
They want protection from liability and also editorial control?
Regardless of the legal status, it seems clear that when massive companies refuse to allow the media they own to publish a dissenting opinion, we’re not headed towards a ~~more~~ democratic society.
That's clear. But with using Facebook for public discourse, you flushed all ideas about democratic societies down the toilet. Democratic societies should have their public discourse in public places. Not in commercial walled gardens owned by some US maniacs.
> They have to choose, safe harbor provisioning or responsibility for the content.
Since two decades they decide what goes up and what goes down, by means of their algorithms. And basically nobody complained so far (well, around 12 people on earth did - one of them is me).
It was completely okay for you since then. It was never a big topic. You were absolutely fine with that.
And now they just went one step further and removed something completely because they disliked it (well, who knows how often they already did, but it just never went public enough?!).
... and that's not even stupid. Because they know one thing that some of you didn't realize yet: You'll have forgotten it in a week as soon as public attention moves to next week's big bummer.
why shouldn't it be up to Meta what content they remove from their website?
It's not even their fault that you misunderstand Facebook as a public space since two decades. It isn't. It never was. It's a commercial website. They let you upload your pointless vacation photos. That's basically it.
> is perfectly legal in the Netherlands to record people in public places.
it's perfectly legal to record but publish, especially in but not limited to a commercial context without explicit consent violates portrait rights under the GDPR in the EU. And I strongly suspect if you posted a video in which people explicitly object to being filmed and flag that on Facebook or other platforms it will get taken down.
I cant just take a photo of a person or even car on the street and just share it online unless its clear the car or person is not the central point of the photo standing alone.
But you raise an interesting point: if this would be against the law in Germany, why is Facebook waiting for these glasses to be banned? It never should have made these available in Germany, and should be using technical means to ensure that they cannot function inside of Germany's borders.
So it's just more proof of the hypocrisy. Meta doesn't care about the privacy of the plebs.
It's perfectly fine to take pictures of the Brandenburger Tor for example and post them online. There will likely be people in that picture but as they are not the main aspect of the image, it will be fine.
It's something different if you zoom in on somebody in that scene and he becomes the main point of the image. Then his personal rights overwhelm the right to document public spaces.
In Sweden for instance it's a bit in-between (unless the law has changed). You're allowed to film in public if you're using a non-stationary camera, but stationary cameras require a permit.
That's an important caveat. We kind of have something similar, in that if you install CCTV, and if it captures an area where people would expect privacy (ie, looking through a window, or into someone's back garden ... which has its own caveats around being a public place or not) you have a right to have that area removed from video coverage.
That would be the right thing. You want to film something, you don't use people passing by as a free extra and don't publish the details where and with whom they were going online. Is is just some American thing that they do not care about feelings of other people.
If you have any respect, don't film other people or at least blur them.
Yeah, Germany is different here. I am not 100% sure, but in Germany it is allowed if you are not focusing on any particular individual person. It is difficult to argue in absolute terms, which is why most consider public photos forbidden completely (unless for private/personal, very narrow use). Nowadays, in Germany, it has helped me to consider everything forbidden, unless it is explicitly allowed somewhere.
That's pretty understandable, and I've no particular issue with it (although I'm now aware I broke quite a few photo- and video- laws when I was last in Berlin ;) )
Where do you get the "without their consent" bit from?
The hypocrisy is probably located around here:
> "I've been making satirical videos about all kinds of things for ten years: Gaza, Ukraine, refugees. Funny videos that push boundaries and provoke discussion. But I've never experienced a video being removed before.
The hypocrisy is that meta is creating a tool that their employees are very uncomfortable seeing used on them.
What the law says about consent is irrelevant to the hypocrisy, and the videos are automatically uploaded to meta without anyone's consent anyway. You know this very well, there is no need to cosplay the smart devil's advocate.
I agree, I cannot control what other people will do. Are you applying this fear to all other facets of your life? I guess not, since that would mean you'd live in a state of constant fear and paranoia.
A person is being treated disrespectfully and your point is that they should do nothing with it. Filming without permission is no different than harassing or bullying. A weak person would bear with it, a strong one would punch in the face.
>Filming without permission is no different than harassing or bullying.
Since you used the most generic language possible, I guess me filming my nephew blowing on the cadles at his 8th birthday is harrassing and bullying and I should expect a punch in the face
It's incredibly hypocritical. It's like working at Flock and complaining about being filmed on a Flock camera. Or working for a company that sells cars that emit a loud, annoying sound and complaining about those cars in your neighborhood. Or making devices for children but banning your own children from using them because the devices are harmful. They clearly don't care that the product their company is selling can legally (in most places) be used to film people in public until they themselves are filmed in public. How is that not hypocrisy?
Any camera in the world can be used to film people in public without their consent. There are lawful ways to do it (if the people are "background noise" and not the point of the video), and unlawful ways to do it (if the people become the subject of the video).
So tell me now, is a GoPro/Canon/Apple employee who doesn't consent to being the subject of a video taken with a GoPro/Canon/iPhone camera also a hypochrite?
The mental gymnastics that people do here to defend these untouchable corporations is disgusting. From Meta to OpenAi, for a lot of people here it's just a "yeah, but actually". I've reported everything from holocaust glorification to videos of people being filmed in public in europe just to be humiliated, to obvious far right propaganda done by russian linked accounts, nothing goes against Meta's policy anymore, except when it's about them...
The asymmetry bothers me. No one corporation is going to get it right 100% of the time but it's when you report stuff and it never gets removed but they ban you that you can really see how morally bankrupt they are
(Oh, and they don't care about local solutions. Their sneakiness with Free Basics is clear. Can you blame them for Myanmar? I think you can, but it's also clear they want to supplant all the other social networks, like a system each individual country might come up with)
It does bother me being here on hacker news because it's a good aggregator but you get people standing up for their industry no matter what or flagging anything they disagree with
neither of these things are remotely acceptable. the degree of distinction is relevant to the impact on the victim and in a punitive sense, but doing either of these things is a mark of a severely antisocial behavior disorder that needs to be addressed by mental healthcare and prevention of access to tools that facilitate this behavior.
No one cares if you are not uploading if they still feel unsafe. The differences are marginal to those that actually have a family or a partner. I'm still going to bet that my assumption is correct because no one with a family is going to argue against this.
>I'll remind you that sharing a video you took of someone without their consent is not the same as recording them and keeping the video strictly for yourself
This distinction does not matter if people feel unsafe regardless of "keeping it to yourself". It is still very creepy for a lot of people especially women and children. So what is the point of this "reminder"?
To point out that it's not hypochritical to treat differently a private recording and a published recording of a person that hasn't given you explicit consent
Sorry but have you looked at AliExpress lately? You think glasses with hidden video cameras are something we have the ability to ban?
Meta has made the concept popular, but hardware feasibility already tipped the scales, these cameras are going to be ubiquitous and if not in glasses then in even more hidden formats like buttons and pinhole wearables.
So, make it a punishable offence? Maybe get a slap on the wrist the first time and go to jail the second time. That will get people thinking if it's worth it. And it will definitely stop the flood of weirdos that randomly film people to put them on their instatok.
I hate these glasses, but why do you need to ban them? Meta operates at scale, so it will only stay in this business if a considerable number of people buy this. Vote with your money. There are legitimate uses for camera glasses (journalism, action sports, etc.).
I'm trying to understand how to "vote with my money" for not being recorded by these glasses in public. My best interpretation would be financially supporting private establishments that have banned these devices... Which feels like exactly what you're arguing against.
Your employer has fundamentally undermined the stable functioning of society by systematically provoking outrage, division and hate. You have contributed to a world where we can’t even agree if measles is bad.
Myspace had its run, it wasn't an especially good product. People moved to Facebook for any number of reasons, but those privacy settings ("friends only", etc) if they worked would've been pretty cool and good for the web
Unfortunately Zuckerberg doesn't care about privacy and actively spent time changing those from Friends Only to Public
And graph search. If I search for 'carrot' I can see any post you've ever made in your entire history with carrot in it
There's a reason Facebook's wall thing is now called 'timeline'. It lists everything you've ever done ever. Hope you managed to catch yet another one of their silent privacy changes. Oh, look, guess you have to log in to catch it. That means they rope you back into the system. Oh well. No biggie. Just the absolute antithesis of consent
I just can’t find the user experience different enough for me to feel like my western friends have any point to make about China
the west has a thin partyless corporate layer controlling all facets of life and your ability to participate in life compared to the government doing it directly
but its okay because if you don’t care about any of that you can talk about it (in person only because nobody will hear it for long elsewhere) and you won’t be disappeared? *unless your citizenship status is questioned
I like my meta glasses. I think them being able to film is very cool. I don’t think you guys think it’s that creepy. I think you guys just don’t like Meta.
I recorded a video harassing the employees of a company, I uploaded it to the servers of said company, and they removed it. Who could have imagined this would happen?
This "ban all kids" kind of take is bananas to me. It implies you either A) believe we should trust famously secure and benevolent tech companies with government ID or B) believe parents have the time or technical know-how to exhaustively monitor the internet access of kids. Even as a software engineer, I've found it insanely tiresome to try operating half-assed parental controls across devices.
Mostly vast amounts of sexism, but I also see racism, antisemitism and islamophobia waaay too much. The 'isms' tend to glom onto certain posts and go nuts. Algorithmic feeds at their finest, I guess.
Instagram is full of videos of guys harassing and antagonizing people in public as "pranks". And this is not some coincidence, since both products are from the same company, they basically unleashed this for engagement.
Just be thankful that they are still obvious, AliExpress is full of knock-off camera glasses and they are only going to get more compact, harder to spot and they won't even bother adding an easily disabled recording light
Was this a action constructed so that its suppression makes the suppressed message easier to understand? If meta takes down the video they reenforce that the glasses can be used in a bad way, and if they leave it up the initial critical message can spread. Like the 2012 Barnaul “toy protest” in Siberia.
Maybe we haven’t seen enough creative applications of these to win us over? Every time I see them on someone they instantly look like Woody Allen. Imagine what art a filmmaker like Woody Allen would make with these glasses.
I don't like it when I'm recorded without my consent. But people do that with their phones all the time for TikTok videos, for meta videos, for YouTube videos. Nobody yet has demanded that smartphones be banned or that cameras be removed from smartphones.
It smacks of hypocrisy to me. Either ban them all or allow them all.
> I wonder what’s next. Constant haze of personal drones over all our heads, incidentally surveilling everyone 24/7 like ring doorbells in the sky?
Sounds about right, though probably it will start with shipping drones. Amazon already has cameras on their drones, of course, so how long until they sell that capability to the highest bidder? And only the FAA can effectively regulate them, which means we are unlikely to see any rollback in the capability. I do not look forward to hearing these things buzzing over my house all day and knowing they are likely recording video of me.
I don't like it, but this is happening. And while we can frown on it socially, it would be self-defeating to ask our government to ban filming in public.
Yes. It appears that there was another person, perhaps with another pair of such glasses, who was filming the interactions from a 3rd person's perspective.
Outside basic network effects like real names Facebook has contributed essentially nothing of value to the world. (And no, don't tell me "React, Pytorch". People were screaming about React's license) The network effects barely matter too because their AI bans you whenever and feeds are so useless you never see what anyone posts
Instagram went from a site for photographers to Reels everywhere (and login walls on every page)
Other than ad revenue, the company hasn't had any big wins. VR didn't take off. Metaverse didn't take off. AI models didn't take off. All multi-billion dollar ventures. Any other board would have sacked him by now.
He can't be fired as CEO due to the way he set up the company (Class A and Class B stocks, Class A worth 1 vote, Class B worth 10 votes, he owns like 90% of Class B stock)
it's because he controls the board by being the majority voting shareholder.
This is what happens when the gov't decides that it is legal for share classes with different voting rights. It ensures that you can sell equity to obtain money, without actually giving up control of said company at all. In theory, buyers would discount the sold equity due to this, but in practice, they don't (esp. if they're retail buyers).
Thanks for clearing that up. One less thing to sort out.
Interesting consequence.
EDIT: Initially, this is nuts. How can I give "own" part of a company and not have a say. Sounds like a silent partner scheme. Looks like this a per state thing.
There is this ruling Business Roundtable v. SEC (1990) that strikes down an SEC rule that prevented corps from going public if they didn't follow "one-share-one-vote".
Oh, like the video metrics scandal? Or how their ads are shown to more people in an area than physically exist?
Of course the counter-argument is "makes money". That first of all doesn't make a good CEO (if you put no money into maintaining your site, for example), second of all it ignores all the fraud
Another thread where the top comment is "We have to do something!!" and no one stepping forward to actually do so. I suppose they know how to divide us, keep us threatening each other and never actually finding agreement.
All over the US people are freaking out about Flock cameras and that's justified.
Meanwhile, these Meta glasses are far more ubiquitous, far more intrusive, being sold all over the world (not only the US) and their images have a lot less oversight than Flock's. And I don't need to tell anyone how irresponsible Meta is with other people's privacy.
Huh? Not in my area. I've seen one pair of these in the wild and dozens of Flock cameras. Will that change? Maybe. For now, the _freak outs_ about Flock are absolutely justified.
Their footprints are also completely different. I can't avoid Flock cameras unless I want to change my path of travel and take back roads, which costs me time and money. Whereas I _might_ encounter someone wearing Meta glasses _if_ I happen to cross paths with them.
Again, I'm not (for all intents and purposes) forced to cross paths with any of those individual pervert glass wearers like I am with Flock cameras. It's a false equivalence.
Yeah, I also find it weird to make a comparison with a random private individual and/or corporation with an actor that has the monopoly on violence.
The government doing surveillance is much much worse.
And, ultimately, the issue here is that individuals are using these products in a bad way. Go to Japan and this shit is prolifically bad. Upskirt cameras on shoes and all this shit. Banning these glasses doesn't get rid of bad behaviors. Japan has been at the forefront of pervy invasive shit for decades.
Corporate censorship. Do we want such a future in general,
where big companies decide onto you what you can see and what
you can not see? These walled digital gardens they built up
are already such a huge issue.
Now I don't depend on CIAbook, formerly
known as Facebook, in any way, shape or form. And I don't use
Suckerberg's Spyglasses either - hopefully others feel in a
similar way, but unfortunately money convinces people, and I
noticed a few "auditors" using spyglasses allegedly for
"protection" (though, why they don't use normal vide cameras
instead, beats me - perhaps they are not truthful). I fear
that the spyglasses will be a success since Suckerberg is so
sold on spying on mankind. If Google were not to exist, Facebook
would be the number #1 evil company right now.
I cant believe this is a thing. I just turned on dead comments and there are loads of them, most I dont consider offensive or bad in any way. I had no idea HN was so severely censored, my opinion of it has gone down (even though I assume this comment will now be killed).
Look through the history of the commenters who are shadowbanned (the reason all their comments are dead) and you usually find out relatively quickly how they ended up in that situation. I cannot think of a single instance where dang banned someone for being critical of HN, ycombinator, disagreeing with them, etc, it is always because someone cannot maintain a basic level of civility.
For testing sake, even if you don't believe it - try posting a few comments with this idea (in your own words) - and be very civil.
The AI industry's mass theft of artwork is a crime that should be punished. The perpetrators, those directing this action, should lose everything. They should be left in perpetual debt as payment for their theft from the rest of society. This is just like 2008, when all of the oligarchy controlling the banks pillaged the rest of society, and got off with no real consequence. What we have is a few, probable psychopaths, injuring the masses for their own gain.
Try posting that on a high visibility story relating to the AI industries ethics. See what happens.
You will surely be down-voted - that's fine - [even though, for me, this opinion seems like a no-brainer, is it that crazy?] - (this comment might affect your account? not sure) -- The question, is it "disappeared."
Interesting - yes, Epstein glasses. Hmm.. Pervert glasses, epstein glasses, pervert glasses, Epstein glasses. Pervstein glasses? <looks at coffee>, <looks outside>, <wonders why this world is so dumb>, <wonders when the revolution will come>
Anyone can just go on Temu and easily buy stalking gadgets like gps trackers and tiny spy cameras etc for very little money. Any legislation against this type of thing would need to be very wide reaching to be effective, as there are much cheaper and easier to obtain devices which secretly film than meta glasses.
The title is misleading - it sounds like they specifically went there to harass employees by filming them, and Meta took down the videos for harassment, like they routinely do if this is reported on their platforms. I'm really not sure what the issue is.
Meta only cares about this video because it directly targets Meta. If this guy was asking questions to employees of any other company they would not give a shit.
I have read news article about people wearing meta glasses, removing the red recording LED and filming woman and girls at beaches in bikini without their knowledge. And these video often stay up on metas Instagram, accounts don't get suspended. THAT is the issue.
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