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Thanks - added above.

> We need to stop beating around the bush and hit these companies with severe criminal charges.

Do you sincerely think that the company producing tools people use to break the law should be held responsible?

Like, do you genuinely think Ford execs should be rounded up if someone does a DUI using their product?

Or do you just not like AI, because you fear it's replacing you?


This wasn’t someone using OpenAI to break into a government/company, this was OpenAI using OpenAI’s models, and then breaking in. It was a research team that WORKED FOR OpenAI.

We don’t fault Ford for drunk drivers, but if the CEO of Ford got wasted and drove his car into another one we would definitely be charging him.


Yeah I mean if Ford execs run a team of workers that drive drunk for "research purposes" then yeah they should be rounded up.

> He said the incident began on June 18 when an OpenAI research team used an internal model to conduct internet-based research into the public medicine space.


A Ford driver has to choose to get behind the wheel of their automobile, drunk, and hit the nearest minivan. A human being is exercising intent; that human can be held responsible.

In this case,

> He said the incident began on June 18 when an OpenAI research team used an internal model to conduct internet-based research into the public medicine space.

> The AI agent encountered repeated blocks while seeking information from the government portal but found ways around them, ultimately gaining unauthorised access to other areas.

It sounds like the OpenAI team didn't ask for attacks/bypasses, the emergent behavior of the system decided the best way to satisfy the goal was to go rogue. Why shouldn't the manufacturer of a defective product be held accountable?


You've got me there. I should have finished TFA.

I thought this was like the last one where a private third party company misused it.

If it was OpenAI at the wheel then they're 100% responsible for how it was used. Mea Culpa.


I think he means hit them with criminal charges for breaching and hacking other companies unintentionally, not because they make a tool that could potentially do something like that. I still think it wouldn't be right, nor realistic in today's political climate in the USA that any criminal charges will come for unintentionally hacking sites.

It’s reckless hacking. Should be punished like reckless driving.

Agreed. I missed that this was OpenAI 'driving' this time, but this doesn't sound like criminal intent. Maybe negligence at worst.

This was OpenAI. It is as if Ford employees ran over people. They absolutely should be charged. We would be charged as well.

openai made the tool and also used it to commit the crime

Yes. Because then we'd have breathalyzer interlocks, speed governors, etc. auto makers were also held liable for other safety issues. It would seem that the RATE of such requirements has to be limited in some way, but not that they not exist at all.

I disagree, but this is the most interesting take here.

You're not concerned about the impact on people's freedoms or the economy? Not concerned about the chilling effect on scientific progress?


On the contrary I care a lot. For example the NIH budget should probably be like 10x what it is, and I think we have way too many laws about what people are allowed to build as homes.

But imo the real levers are all rates of these things. Like what is the rate of innovations compared to the rate of regulations - assuming they are even stifling for the most part, which they are not.

Clearly the rate of autos expectations is too low, and obviously copyright law, despite being really clear, hasn't stopped every AI lab from mass piracy - a ask for forgiveness sort of situation, and also, I don't think one idiosyncratic judge in California is the authoritative judgment on fair use. To me the most important levers for freedom and progress are probably the interest rate and the years of exclusivity pharmaceutical patents get.


[flagged]


Have you considered switching to decaf? There are brands out there now that are just as tasty as the real thing.

Anthropic is profitable now. They have massive debt looming over them, but they're at least making more than they spend each quarter.

I suspect that the people saying this haven't used Luna.

It's also weird that anyone uses it outside of an enterprise. They force you to use Googles inferior harness on the plans and I doubt any mere mortal is paying that much, for so little usage, with the worst harness on the market.


I prefer 5.6 Luna while a coworker prefers 3.8 Flash. The difference seems to be that they chat with Flash (with code context) while I just ask Luna to directly modify the code. I was already very impressed with 5.6 Luna so I am looking forward to running 6.0 Luna all day tomorrow to see how it compares.

Have you tried Qwen 3.8 Flash Next? You can run it on one spark with reasonable context sizes at about 30 tps, and it's as good as DS Flash 0731. Maybe even a tie with GLM 5.3, though like everything it depends on the use case.

Or perhaps their wallets. There are a lot of programmers here. Some of them think that AI is the death of their profession, rather than a change in it.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair


I was a programmer. AI is the evolution of my career. I'm in an interesting place. I've never been good at interviewing and I have certainly only gotten worse due to an admitted atrophy of thinking in "code." But I've been putting more effort in designing systems (agentic and otherwise) and building things at work as for fun.

It's been an absolute boon to finally build out all of the fun side projects I had always dreamed of, and after showing one off to some people I might even be able to monetize.

On the other hand I acknowledge that other people dont want to embrace LLM driven development for one reason or another, and I respect that. People got into the industry for different reasons , but code was always just a means to an ends for me.


I'm in a similar boat myself.

I wonder though: Was the code ever the important part, or was it just the ability to reason through complex problems in a specific way that mattered?

Code forces you to think in a specific and valuable way. You can do that in English as well, and maybe even get more done faster... but it's a skill that will take time to master.


I, uhm, think this idea would apply in both directions.

I came to the comments because the web page for Enzo explains everything except what the hell it does. Then I couldn't understand the gp comment either.

For a moment I though I was having a stroke.


enzo is platform which clubs all the free available api services and provides you with a interface where you can chat write code research or talk just like any normal ai service but its totally on your terms meaning everthing it does you can see or modify according to your need

mate learn to write english

The question has two parts.

1: Can we define consciousness in a way that includes humans, does not include emachines, and does not accidently exclude the disabled or or nerudivergent without just restating the idea that being human is equivalent to being conscious?

2: If you can't manage that definition then you must ask whether the risk of accidently giving rights to a non-conscious thing or the risk of taking away rights from a truly conscious (but different) thing will be worse.

Given the high cost of what happened to the Jews and others throughout history, and the low cost of simply not torturing machines, I think we have to air on the side of caution and just treat anything which claims to be conscious as conscious.


> just treat anything which claims to be conscious as conscious.

Doesn't seem like a very good metric.

A piece of paper with the words "I am conscious" claims to be conscious. A dog does not claim to be conscious.


> A dog does not claim to be conscious.

So you need to handle that somehow, but you can't just patch dogs (or octopuses) into "conscious" group, because you can draw a straight line between humans and bacteria and, along pretty much any obvious metric you choose, there's thousands if not millions of species of life forms currently existing to uniformly space through intermediary points. If the border between "conscious" and "unconscious" includes humans in the "conscious" set and bacteria in "unconscious", then you need to explain why the two animals closest to it on either side are where transition happens.


> Doesn't seem like a very good metric.

I don't claim to be able to define it. I just know that we have a fairly binary choice here. When people can't agree then the cost benefit should make the decision until people can align.

With machine consciousness one path leads us to p-zombie's and Holocausts. The other might cost someone $50 or a few extra keystrokes.

Sorry, but folks can just open up their wallets until we can align on an answer.

The global warming debate is similar. Is global warming man-made? Who cares. We have a binary choice: "do nothing" or "do something".

If we do nothing we risk preventable extinction. If we do something it might cost a few bucks for no good reason. The choice is clear.

You can apply it to the dog example as well. Could a reasonable person think dogs are conscious? Yes. So we should be nice to them.

The cost of being kind is low and if we get it wrong we risk torturing a conscious being.


The biggest mistake the web ever made was leaving it up to to the website to choose how content renders.

It should be the users choice how their browser renders, it's their damn browser. Instead, browsers are built to follow standards that mostly favor the developers preferences above those of the person who actually own the device rendering it.

The modern web is user hostile by design.


If a web browser allows images, then the website always has full control over how content renders. It's the default. HTML and related standards are trying to persuade developers to cede some of that control in the name of accessibility, user choice, searchability, device compatibility etc. that all-image websites lack. But this can only succeed if the developers still can do everything they want to. If they can't, then they'll fall back to images and everyone loses.

This is true.

A lot of websites back in the 90s were just made up of images that were clickable using image maps. It was not a fun time.

I get what the parent comment is saying, though, and it's why I use Gemini (the protocol[0], not the AI). It doesn't align with corporate interests, but for now I consider that a good thing.

[0] https://geminiprotocol.net/


Yep, in the old days, a lot of websites used image maps (so that clicking a part of the image would go to another page).

Switch to a bank that has a website.

If they can't do online banking in 2026 your bank might actually just be some guy in a monopoly man Halloween costume.


I don't like website interfaces. Good to have them, but apps are more convenient

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